Comments on: Dear Senator Clinton… http://www.stonesand.net/2005/07/27/34/ Geektime Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:49:34 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: Diablo http://www.stonesand.net/2005/07/27/34/comment-page-1/#comment-444 Diablo Thu, 11 Aug 2005 21:20:09 +0000 http://oregonstate.edu/~brewsteb/2005/07/27/34/#comment-444 Good post Sharpie, I was just going to post something similar about Devon Moore. Next pain in the butt is Jack Thomspon, a "Christian" lawyer from Florida who makes all sorts of charges against gaming developers. He's begining to pick up momentum in light of the recent developments. Anyway, I am glad the jury didn't buy Mr. Moore's defense argument about video games (specifically GTA) being the real perpetrator. Devon will be sentenced shortly, and quite frankly, my republican roots scream "death penalty!". Good post Sharpie, I was just going to post something similar about Devon Moore. Next pain in the butt is Jack Thomspon, a “Christian” lawyer from Florida who makes all sorts of charges against gaming developers. He’s begining to pick up momentum in light of the recent developments.

Anyway, I am glad the jury didn’t buy Mr. Moore’s defense argument about video games (specifically GTA) being the real perpetrator. Devon will be sentenced shortly, and quite frankly, my republican roots scream “death penalty!”.

]]> By: Sharpie http://www.stonesand.net/2005/07/27/34/comment-page-1/#comment-438 Sharpie Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:33:58 +0000 http://oregonstate.edu/~brewsteb/2005/07/27/34/#comment-438 Thought ya'll might find <a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,165259,00.html" rel="nofollow">this</a> interesting. That Devin Moore kid who shot and killed 3 police officers was convicted of capital murder on Tuesday. The jury didn't buy the defense's arguments that Grand Theft Auto made him do it and therefore he should be found not guilty because of a "mental defect". Good to see that some people won't let sickos like this get off by blaming it on video games. Moore and his kind are messed up from the beginning. They lack the psychological controls and barriers that prevent the rest of us from acting out on violent thoughts and temptations. Thought ya’ll might find this interesting. That Devin Moore kid who shot and killed 3 police officers was convicted of capital murder on Tuesday. The jury didn’t buy the defense’s arguments that Grand Theft Auto made him do it and therefore he should be found not guilty because of a “mental defect”. Good to see that some people won’t let sickos like this get off by blaming it on video games. Moore and his kind are messed up from the beginning. They lack the psychological controls and barriers that prevent the rest of us from acting out on violent thoughts and temptations.

]]> By: Andrew http://www.stonesand.net/2005/07/27/34/comment-page-1/#comment-386 Andrew Sun, 31 Jul 2005 15:27:26 +0000 http://oregonstate.edu/~brewsteb/2005/07/27/34/#comment-386 Hillary Clinton, while someone who I share many of my political views with, is not someone who I care for. In my mind, she's a political opportunist--moreso than other politicians--and she's doing nothing more than exploiting a hot-button issue to support herself. If it wasn't her, it would be someone else. Hillary Clinton, while someone who I share many of my political views with, is not someone who I care for. In my mind, she’s a political opportunist–moreso than other politicians–and she’s doing nothing more than exploiting a hot-button issue to support herself. If it wasn’t her, it would be someone else.

]]> By: nathan caulder http://www.stonesand.net/2005/07/27/34/comment-page-1/#comment-384 nathan caulder Fri, 29 Jul 2005 20:34:16 +0000 http://oregonstate.edu/~brewsteb/2005/07/27/34/#comment-384 Horse not dead, still twitching. It was the government that initiated the ESRB rating system currently used in the gaming industry. If you think that PBS report has ended all arguments trying to establish a causal relationship between adolecent violence and gaming, well, you are not paying attention. Especially with granny Florence picking up another case along with the Devon Moore case, et al. By "non-partisan", I meant not Clinton influenced. Clinton is not going to "lead" the investigation, she is merely putting it on the floor for discussion. Obviously Clinton did it for positive media propaganda (why do any politicians do anything, if not for public favor?), but if congress can direct a panel to investigate this issue thoroughly, I am convinced that the study will produce something similar to the PBS report, which is why I support it (and quite frankly, spending $90 million on this is more important to me than $90 million going to Welfare- yes I am that mean!). If it does not support us, then it will at least help parents (and this is yours, mine, and Sandy's position) pay more attention to the ESRB rating system and grandma Florence can die happy too. Bottom line, I am not against the PBS report, but if you haven't done a lot of research, you'll see why I think this gov't report is necessary. There already is too much negative press about gaming, that PBS report is practically unheard of, we need something more to prove the PBS point. I also think the gov't should do an educational training like "Parents: anit-drug" campaign, but they will not likely do it without their own study. There's my horse, you can either ride it or let it die. Horse not dead, still twitching.

It was the government that initiated the ESRB rating system currently used in the gaming industry. If you think that PBS report has ended all arguments trying to establish a causal relationship between adolecent violence and gaming, well, you are not paying attention. Especially with granny Florence picking up another case along with the Devon Moore case, et al.

By “non-partisan”, I meant not Clinton influenced. Clinton is not going to “lead” the investigation, she is merely putting it on the floor for discussion. Obviously Clinton did it for positive media propaganda (why do any politicians do anything, if not for public favor?), but if congress can direct a panel to investigate this issue thoroughly, I am convinced that the study will produce something similar to the PBS report, which is why I support it (and quite frankly, spending $90 million on this is more important to me than $90 million going to Welfare- yes I am that mean!). If it does not support us, then it will at least help parents (and this is yours, mine, and Sandy’s position) pay more attention to the ESRB rating system and grandma Florence can die happy too.

Bottom line, I am not against the PBS report, but if you haven’t done a lot of research, you’ll see why I think this gov’t report is necessary. There already is too much negative press about gaming, that PBS report is practically unheard of, we need something more to prove the PBS point. I also think the gov’t should do an educational training like “Parents: anit-drug” campaign, but they will not likely do it without their own study.

There’s my horse, you can either ride it or let it die.

]]> By: Sharpie http://www.stonesand.net/2005/07/27/34/comment-page-1/#comment-381 Sharpie Fri, 29 Jul 2005 18:36:54 +0000 http://oregonstate.edu/~brewsteb/2005/07/27/34/#comment-381 Caulder, I don't know where you get off calling blatant political exploitation "non-partisan". Senator Clinton is unabashedly trying to hi-jack this traditionally conservative issue to garner additional votes for her prospective Presidential bid. I think you should open your eyes and realize that these people <em>want</em> to find some mud to use on the video game industry. Congress may contract a "non-partisan" group to do the research, but do you actually believe they will give said group "non-partisan" direction or staff it with "non-partisan" experts? Now don't get me wrong; I am all for enforcing the ESRB rating system. The system is already in place and it works. Clearly there are some nasty games out there. The function of the ESRB is to keep mature themes away from impressionable minds. So what's the problem? Parents. That's the problem here. Not video games. Case in point: The MPA has been rating motion pictures for decades. There are plenty of raunchy and gory movies being made but you don't see politicians all up in arms about them. Why? Because the public adheres (for the most part) to the rating system. Parents will generally keep their kids away from R rated movies. Why? Because parents understand the implication of a rated R movie. Personally, I believe parents are ignorant these days. Ignorant of what video games are and what organizations exist to categorize these games. Kids aren't playing PacMan and Mario Brothers anymore, parents need to realize this. We don't need a $90 million "non-partisan" research project telling us more of the same thing: there is no causal relationship between video games/youth violence and parents should be more vigilant. If the government is going to sponsor anything it should be a publicity campaign aimed at educating parents (much akin to their "Parent: the anit-drug" campaign). Now I admit that this has the potential to be just as expensive (hopefully not) but at least then the government will actually be accomplishing something instead of throwing money down a hole. In my opinion, however, the best scenario would be for the government to stay the heck out of it and for parents to get off their collective lazy rumps and take an interest in what exactly they are getting their kids for Christmas. I know you're looking for better publicity for the gaming community (heck, we all are) but endorsing a political whitch-hunt just isn't going to produce it. P.S. Is the horse dead yet? Can we stop flogging? ;) Caulder,
I don’t know where you get off calling blatant political exploitation “non-partisan”. Senator Clinton is unabashedly trying to hi-jack this traditionally conservative issue to garner additional votes for her prospective Presidential bid. I think you should open your eyes and realize that these people want to find some mud to use on the video game industry. Congress may contract a “non-partisan” group to do the research, but do you actually believe they will give said group “non-partisan” direction or staff it with “non-partisan” experts?

Now don’t get me wrong; I am all for enforcing the ESRB rating system. The system is already in place and it works. Clearly there are some nasty games out there. The function of the ESRB is to keep mature themes away from impressionable minds. So what’s the problem? Parents. That’s the problem here. Not video games.

Case in point: The MPA has been rating motion pictures for decades. There are plenty of raunchy and gory movies being made but you don’t see politicians all up in arms about them. Why? Because the public adheres (for the most part) to the rating system. Parents will generally keep their kids away from R rated movies. Why? Because parents understand the implication of a rated R movie.

Personally, I believe parents are ignorant these days. Ignorant of what video games are and what organizations exist to categorize these games. Kids aren’t playing PacMan and Mario Brothers anymore, parents need to realize this. We don’t need a $90 million “non-partisan” research project telling us more of the same thing: there is no causal relationship between video games/youth violence and parents should be more vigilant.

If the government is going to sponsor anything it should be a publicity campaign aimed at educating parents (much akin to their “Parent: the anit-drug” campaign). Now I admit that this has the potential to be just as expensive (hopefully not) but at least then the government will actually be accomplishing something instead of throwing money down a hole. In my opinion, however, the best scenario would be for the government to stay the heck out of it and for parents to get off their collective lazy rumps and take an interest in what exactly they are getting their kids for Christmas.

I know you’re looking for better publicity for the gaming community (heck, we all are) but endorsing a political whitch-hunt just isn’t going to produce it.

P.S. Is the horse dead yet? Can we stop flogging? ;)

]]> By: nathan caulder http://www.stonesand.net/2005/07/27/34/comment-page-1/#comment-380 nathan caulder Fri, 29 Jul 2005 17:26:36 +0000 http://oregonstate.edu/~brewsteb/2005/07/27/34/#comment-380 Sandstone [insult deleted]- let me pin-point the bread and butter of my last missive: You have the PBS report using 2001 data, google 'video game violence' and for every 10 articles, 9 are against the PBS report (despite whoever their support group is). A government funded, non-partisan study on video game violence could help bolster and perhaps solidify the PBS report, or if not, at least help parents seriously consider the ESRB rating system so they are more reluctant to purchase 'M' rated games for their 10 year old. Nevertheless, I also do not think that video game violence endorses real life violence to an extent. Which is why I support a government funded study to verify this opinion. Obviously I would not want any of my children playing a Halo game until they are teenagers. But, as I cited in my first post, even teeenagers are willing to blame video games for their behaviors. Feel free to do a little research on your own. You'll find a lot of child psychologists lambasting video games and rendering vagrant opinions against our hobby. I am just looking for better publicity for the gaming community, especially after the GTA:SA incident (which prompted the article in the LA Times). Sandstone [insult deleted]- let me pin-point the bread and butter of my last missive: You have the PBS report using 2001 data, google ‘video game violence’ and for every 10 articles, 9 are against the PBS report (despite whoever their support group is). A government funded, non-partisan study on video game violence could help bolster and perhaps solidify the PBS report, or if not, at least help parents seriously consider the ESRB rating system so they are more reluctant to purchase ‘M’ rated games for their 10 year old.

Nevertheless, I also do not think that video game violence endorses real life violence to an extent. Which is why I support a government funded study to verify this opinion. Obviously I would not want any of my children playing a Halo game until they are teenagers. But, as I cited in my first post, even teeenagers are willing to blame video games for their behaviors.

Feel free to do a little research on your own. You’ll find a lot of child psychologists lambasting video games and rendering vagrant opinions against our hobby. I am just looking for better publicity for the gaming community, especially after the GTA:SA incident (which prompted the article in the LA Times).

]]> By: Sandstone http://www.stonesand.net/2005/07/27/34/comment-page-1/#comment-378 Sandstone Fri, 29 Jul 2005 16:31:59 +0000 http://oregonstate.edu/~brewsteb/2005/07/27/34/#comment-378 Actually, I love the article Sharpie linked to in his post - PBS oughta be on the forefront of condemnation and derision, but the facts, as supplied and sourced in the article, don't bear those attitudes out. I was surprised to see this from a PBS standpoint - they directly work with children as one of their major target demographics. My favorite quote: <blockquote>"The overwhelming majority of kids who play do NOT commit antisocial acts. According to a 2001 U.S. Surgeon General's report, the strongest risk factors for school shootings centered on mental stability and the quality of home life, not media exposure."</blockquote> Nice find, Sharpie. nathan caulder - sorry, my friend, I didn't understand your point in your last comment - Are you asking for <em>further</em> collaboration of all of the studies linked to in the story? Actually, I love the article Sharpie linked to in his post - PBS oughta be on the forefront of condemnation and derision, but the facts, as supplied and sourced in the article, don’t bear those attitudes out. I was surprised to see this from a PBS standpoint - they directly work with children as one of their major target demographics. My favorite quote:

“The overwhelming majority of kids who play do NOT commit antisocial acts. According to a 2001 U.S. Surgeon General’s report, the strongest risk factors for school shootings centered on mental stability and the quality of home life, not media exposure.”

Nice find, Sharpie. nathan caulder - sorry, my friend, I didn’t understand your point in your last comment - Are you asking for further collaboration of all of the studies linked to in the story?

]]> By: nathan caulder http://www.stonesand.net/2005/07/27/34/comment-page-1/#comment-377 nathan caulder Fri, 29 Jul 2005 00:07:07 +0000 http://oregonstate.edu/~brewsteb/2005/07/27/34/#comment-377 Despite your credentials in this field (ample hours played), your last comment is definitely superfluous. Quite frankly, a well-funded, non-partisan study would be useful to either; a) support your PBS link or, b) help determine how to curb (if any) violent behaviors endorsed by video game players. If they did the study and the conclusion was in line with the PBS study, imagine how much easier our lives would be? I'd laminate a copy of the study and frame it above my xbox [360] for my wife to look at everytime she nagged me about violence in Halo [1,2,3 ad infinitum]. However, if it came back and it did prove an existing correlation (which I also doubt), then maybe the ESRB rating could be enforced better so that there were no 10 year old punks on XLB cursing about being "pwned" and whatever news they have on my mom (who, according to them, gets a round quite a bit). Anyway, where's Diablo, I'm sure he has a comment on this. Despite your credentials in this field (ample hours played), your last comment is definitely superfluous. Quite frankly, a well-funded, non-partisan study would be useful to either; a) support your PBS link or, b) help determine how to curb (if any) violent behaviors endorsed by video game players. If they did the study and the conclusion was in line with the PBS study, imagine how much easier our lives would be? I’d laminate a copy of the study and frame it above my xbox [360] for my wife to look at everytime she nagged me about violence in Halo [1,2,3 ad infinitum].

However, if it came back and it did prove an existing correlation (which I also doubt), then maybe the ESRB rating could be enforced better so that there were no 10 year old punks on XLB cursing about being “pwned” and whatever news they have on my mom (who, according to them, gets a round quite a bit).

Anyway, where’s Diablo, I’m sure he has a comment on this.

]]> By: Sharpie http://www.stonesand.net/2005/07/27/34/comment-page-1/#comment-376 Sharpie Thu, 28 Jul 2005 16:20:08 +0000 http://oregonstate.edu/~brewsteb/2005/07/27/34/#comment-376 Well I was going to write up a long, well-researched, intelligent, and thought-provoking response myself ... but I just keep finding all these greate articles that do my talking for me. <a href="http://www.pbs.org/kcts/videogamerevolution/impact/myths.html">This</a> one is from a PBS documentary. You'd think that the good 'ol liberal PBS would be on the other side of the fence regarding this issue; but think again my friend. (This one even has sources cited!) And just to reiterate what our good friends at PBS explain: Anecdotal evidence of poor parental supervision and serious psychological depravity is <strong>NOT</strong> evidence of a causal relationship between video game media and youth violence. Sorry, it just isn't. And a <strong>$90 million</strong> study (90 million dollars!) funded by US taxpayers is <strong>NOT</strong> going to find anything more conclusive then what has already been published. Sorry, it just won't. Well I was going to write up a long, well-researched, intelligent, and thought-provoking response myself … but I just keep finding all these greate articles that do my talking for me. This one is from a PBS documentary. You’d think that the good ‘ol liberal PBS would be on the other side of the fence regarding this issue; but think again my friend. (This one even has sources cited!)

And just to reiterate what our good friends at PBS explain: Anecdotal evidence of poor parental supervision and serious psychological depravity is NOT evidence of a causal relationship between video game media and youth violence. Sorry, it just isn’t.

And a $90 million study (90 million dollars!) funded by US taxpayers is NOT going to find anything more conclusive then what has already been published. Sorry, it just won’t.

]]> By: nathan caulder http://www.stonesand.net/2005/07/27/34/comment-page-1/#comment-375 nathan caulder Wed, 27 Jul 2005 22:59:22 +0000 http://oregonstate.edu/~brewsteb/2005/07/27/34/#comment-375 Well, I am kinda stuck on this one. First, the author needs to cite some sources for the lapse in teen voilence. It may not be related to video games at all. But even still, there are specific cases of video game violence being directly related to real life violence. One big case is Devon Moore, the teen from Fayette, Ala., who stole a car, got arrested but was able to take a police officers side arm and kill 3 cops. The teen went on to say, "Life is like a video game. You gotta die sometime." Devon incessantly played GTA according to his friends and family. Not surprisingly, a $600 million lawsuit has been filed against Sony, Take Two Interactive, Walmart and Gamestop for the above mentioned case. Side note: another lawsuit has been filed against Take Two interactive for GTA:SA by FLorence Cohen for the recent unlockable interactive porn sequence. On the other end, I do see video games are a good venue for 'airing out' aggression instead of pile-driving the antagonist in real life or driving wih road rage on a highway. I would like to know what children are mentally encoding as acceptable social interaction from games. Sure, games may build cogent thinking methods for problem solving, but if there is a side-effect, I hope it isn't violence, as that is the most prevelant skill thought with gaming: kill or be killed. Anyway, although I like his stance, I cannot totally agree with him. I think the jury is still out on what gaming actually contributes to our society. A $90 million study may not be such a bad thing. Well, I am kinda stuck on this one. First, the author needs to cite some sources for the lapse in teen voilence. It may not be related to video games at all. But even still, there are specific cases of video game violence being directly related to real life violence. One big case is Devon Moore, the teen from Fayette, Ala., who stole a car, got arrested but was able to take a police officers side arm and kill 3 cops. The teen went on to say, “Life is like a video game. You gotta die sometime.” Devon incessantly played GTA according to his friends and family.

Not surprisingly, a $600 million lawsuit has been filed against Sony, Take Two Interactive, Walmart and Gamestop for the above mentioned case. Side note: another lawsuit has been filed against Take Two interactive for GTA:SA by FLorence Cohen for the recent unlockable interactive porn sequence.

On the other end, I do see video games are a good venue for ‘airing out’ aggression instead of pile-driving the antagonist in real life or driving wih road rage on a highway. I would like to know what children are mentally encoding as acceptable social interaction from games. Sure, games may build cogent thinking methods for problem solving, but if there is a side-effect, I hope it isn’t violence, as that is the most prevelant skill thought with gaming: kill or be killed.

Anyway, although I like his stance, I cannot totally agree with him. I think the jury is still out on what gaming actually contributes to our society. A $90 million study may not be such a bad thing.

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